Save the native Umpqua steel

[eggs]

I am all for releasing wild fish it is vital to rebuild and restoring runs. But the end goal of all the money being spent is to bring the population back to a level that hatchery fish can be removed from the rivers and harvest of wild fish can be sustained without over fishing occurring again. If the science and data says limited harvest is sustainable then I have no problem with it. It doesn’t mean I will be harvesting them, but it doesn’t mean others shouldn’t have the ability to, again only if the 'take' can be backed up by science.

 

[fishinshawn]

you think im the only one that thinks harvesting wild steelhead is wrong???? think again

When you say wrong it indicates a moral or legal problem. Can you explain why you think it is wrong to harvest a wild steelhead when the population is healthy enough to support it?

keep the insults coming!!!!!

Maybe everyone is misunderstanding you. You give off the perception that it is morally wrong to kill a wild Steelhead? Do you believe that or not? The only thing I could see that was perhaps insulting, in reference to you, was the word ignorant. Ignorant doesn't mean dumb or stupid, it means you simply don't know or haven't been taught something.

i didn't reject any studies,don't recall saying that in any of my posts at all...

the thing that really gets on my nerves is you all think this is just about my personal beliefs.. not even close.

Are you familiar with the term carrying capacity? It is the theory that for one of any number of reasons a system can only support X number of steelhead or whatever species you want to discuss. Thats a very complex figure to analyze and honestly I doubt ODFW knows what the carrying capacity is for the N. Umpqua basin. What they probably have a very good idea about is escapement. They figure out the maximum number of fish that can be harvested while still allowing for a min. amount of spawners to continue the run in good health. I would guess that ODFW figures there is a large number of wild fish that could be harvested while still meeting the established population guidelines. Along with run year predictions those are the things that ODFW will look at when they decide if a system can sustain a wild harvest. IDK what the numbers would be for the umpqua, I'm just telling you the things they will look at.

Those numbers may very well fluctuate and so little is known about steelheads life history in the ocean it is difficult at best to figure out yearly predictions. Which is why in one of my original posts I advocated for total harvest limit NOT an unlimited harvest. By imposing a harvest limit they could set it low initially and watch the run size grow and add to it if the run exceeded expectations.

Your intentions of protecting something you appear to treasure are admirable. Others have said it, but it just doesn't appear to be sinking in. Whether it is intentional or not you seem to be talking down to people and telling them they are wrong for believe that it is ok, under some circumstances, to harvest a wild fish. That is going to immediately turn people off and close their minds. If you want to really convince people that harvesting wild steelhead on the umpqua is a bad idea, you need to have more information then "It's wrong to kill something so beautiful" Do some research, find something to support your argument other then a perceived moral high ground.

 

[Mad dog]

This thread confuse's me....what are we saving them from???

 

[steelhead_stalkers]

I think the biggest issue is the guides. They will take way more than 5,000 out of the system in a year. Probably about 75% of the coquille guides will hit up the Umpqua since its closer to home and kill their 2 nates a day. I have nothing against guides but I would much rather see them getting their meat eating clients steelhead on hatchery rivers. The guides for the most part will not encourage releasing native fish and they will not say no to clients. The Umpqua is a trophy steelhead fishery and I don't see a problem designating it as that. Some guide boats may be hooking 20 steelhead a day but most of them know how to handle fish for the most part. And those guides are about 5% what they will be once they open the river to harvest.

I would think that those who are poaching steelhead are keeping way more than 5 a year unfortunately.

 

[bran_man]

It took me about 30 minutes or so to read every post on this thread and have to say I was thoroughly entertained by both sides. Pretty intense stuff going on in this one! Not getting into this one. Good luck out there everybody!

 

[rippin fish lips]

It took me about 30 minutes or so to read every post on this thread and have to say I was thoroughly entertained by both sides. Pretty intense stuff going on in this one! Not getting into this one. Good luck out there everybody!

Good idea! lol

 

[rippin fish lips]

I think the biggest issue is the guides. They will take way more than 5,000 out of the system in a year. Probably about 75% of the coquille guides will hit up the Umpqua since its closer to home and kill their 2 nates a day. I have nothing against guides but I would much rather see them getting their meat eating clients steelhead on hatchery rivers. The guides for the most part will not encourage releasing native fish and they will not say no to clients. The Umpqua is a trophy steelhead fishery and I don't see a problem designating it as that. Some guide boats may be hooking 20 steelhead a day but most of them know how to handle fish for the most part. And those guides are about 5% what they will be once they open the river to harvest.

I would think that those who are poaching steelhead are keeping way more than 5 a year unfortunately.

Some good words have been typed here Yesterday at 1:07pm. And i agree with you on the poaching one.

 

[waco]

i don't care how ignorant standing up for wild fish makes me look and i will tell you all that right now. i will do it until the day i die and i will educate our future generations as well so our wild fish and all of our fisheries in general have any chance at making it in the future.

I would educate my self before trying to educate somebody else!

 

[RunWithSasquatch]

The Silver Fish

While fishing in the blue lagoon
I caught a lovely silver fish,

And he spoke to me,
"My boy," quoth he,
"Please set me free and I'll grant your wish...
A kingdom of wisdom? A palace of gold?
Or all the goodies your fancies can hold?"

So I said, "OK," and I threw him free,
And he swam away and he laughed at me
Whispering my foolish wish
Into a silent sea.

Today I caught that fish again,
That lovely silver prince of fishes,
And once again he offered me—
If I would only set him free—
Any one of a number of wonderful wishes...
He was delicious!

 

[Spydeyrch]

The Silver Fish

While fishing in the blue lagoon
I caught a lovely silver fish,

And he spoke to me,
"My boy," quoth he,
"Please set me free and I'll grant your wish...
A kingdom of wisdom? A palace of gold?
Or all the goodies your fancies can hold?"

So I said, "OK," and I threw him free,
And he swam away and he laughed at me
Whispering my foolish wish
Into a silent sea.

Today I caught that fish again,
That lovely silver prince of fishes,
And once again he offered me—
If I would only set him free—
Any one of a number of wonderful wishes...
He was delicious!

Hahahahahahahaha : :lol: :clap: :dance:!!!!


hahahahahahahahaha

Just pure A W E S O M E N E S S!!!!

-Spydey

 

[brandon4455]

you know,i sort of laughed at how quick this thread blew up and how some people called me the person looking at the issue from one side of the fence when those people were also doing that,and thats why they were so angry with me. i know i may be to blame for some of it but if you think about it i didn't make a whole ton of posts.A lot of you took my posts wrong and i also had trouble explaining my reasoning, plus a few personal shots that were very ignorant for the mot part and thats what really set me off.I just look at stuff like this as a lesson learned and i try to improve . If i post something like this you can all have at it and post about cutting a fishes gills or your studies/stats and post pics of dead fish for all i care but in the end that doesn't do any good at all and is a waste of time,witch i why i choose not to reply to any posts on threads like this anymore. i still posted the link and people are still signing it and that is the goal.


i hope everyone else that took part in this thread learned a thing or two because i know i did

 

[Van]

It is a pretty damn sad commentary on the state of our fish runs when 40k is considered a good, healthy population.

 

[Mad dog]

It is a pretty damn sad commentary on the state of our fish runs when 40k is considered a good, healthy population.

Looks like it would have been a good run back in 1945....I guess the more things change, the more the stay the same!
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish_counts/winchester/STW_1945-2011.pdf
I guess you missed Modest man's commentary on carrying capacity!

 

[eat, sleep, fish]

Looks like it would have been a good run back in 1945....I guess the more things change, the more the stay the same!
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish_counts/winchester/STW_1945-2011.pdf
I guess you missed Modest man's commentary on carrying capacity!

Some interesting numbers there Mad dog. It definitely seems to be pointing out that the habitat has been improving the last 10 years since '01-'10 has the highest 10 year average (although supplemented by hatchery fish).

 

[Lowell Life Fisherman]

heck yes bro! totally agree (this post will prolly get me in deep doodoo but i seem to be good at it!) natives taste really good!!!!!!

The Silver Fish

While fishing in the blue lagoon
I caught a lovely silver fish,

And he spoke to me,
"My boy," quoth he,
"Please set me free and I'll grant your wish...
A kingdom of wisdom? A palace of gold?
Or all the goodies your fancies can hold?"

So I said, "OK," and I threw him free,
And he swam away and he laughed at me
Whispering my foolish wish
Into a silent sea.

Today I caught that fish again,
That lovely silver prince of fishes,
And once again he offered me—
If I would only set him free—
Any one of a number of wonderful wishes...
He was delicious!

 

[Van]

Looks like it would have been a good run back in 1945....I guess the more things change, the more the stay the same!
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish_counts/winchester/STW_1945-2011.pdf
I guess you missed Modest man's commentary on carrying capacity!

And what were the populations like at the turn of the century? Im guess much greater. Nothing against modest man but this forum has taught me that everyones posts are to be taken with a grain of salt. When i posted direct information from an experienced high level biologist it was dismissed out of hand

 

[Modest_Man]

I agree that looking back to the 40's is not far enough to determine what the original run size was - the only way they got those counts was because there was a dam on the river which had to have impacted the run. With a dam on the river they're never going to see the same returns as in the 1800's regardless of harvest/no harvest - because the dam lowers the carrying capacity.

With the consistent returns over the last 70 years of around 10,000 fish it's pretty safe to assume that 10k fish is about what the river can handle with the dam. IF the river is at its carrying capacity a limited harvest would have no impact on the yearly averages. A population is actually at its highest rate of growth when it is at 1/2(k) (the carrying capacity) aka 50% max size. Granted you don't necessarily want a 50% harvest because it's impossible to control all variables but a harvest of 30% each year would not affect a population at K.

"High level biologists" make mistakes all the time. Everyone's human. My boss misidentified a LARGE smallbass as a largemouth last week, and he sees them all the time...I being only a "low level biologist" (I guess?) make mistakes everday!

 

[Van]

Sure they do, just like many of us think the ODFW biologist doing this is wrong.

I know it is a hugely emotional issue. Frankly, i dont see that as a problem. When we look at what has become of our once glorious steelhead runs, the desire to protect those that remain from any and all possible harvesting is an obvious reaction. We have a long way to go if we really want to restore our runs and we must do it yesterday.

Kill all the hatchery fish you want. Leave the natives alone, imo.

 

[halibuthitman]

this thread is like listening to my sister talk about her allergy's....

 

[Modest_Man]

this thread is like listening to my sister talk about her allergy's....

Itchy?