Save the native Umpqua steel

[Raincatcher]

This thread has kept me busy for quite a while, making sure no one is out of line. Passion, honest statements and studies have all been posted here, as well as some humor. I just wanted to thank you all for being reasonable and not getting down and dirty. Whether or not we agree with Brandon, we all have the right to express an opinion. Remember, there would be no reason to have an open forum without open discussion. Carry on...

 

[steelhead1]

Well said.

Sure they do, just like many of us think the ODFW biologist doing this is wrong.

I know it is a hugely emotional issue. Frankly, i dont see that as a problem. When we look at what has become of our once glorious steelhead runs, the desire to protect those that remain from any and all possible harvesting is an obvious reaction. We have a long way to go if we really want to restore our runs and we must do it yesterday.

Kill all the hatchery fish you want. Leave the natives alone, imo.

 

[Mad dog]

Sure they do, just like many of us think the ODFW biologist doing this is wrong.

I know it is a hugely emotional issue. Frankly, i dont see that as a problem. When we look at what has become of our once glorious steelhead runs, the desire to protect those that remain from any and all possible harvesting is an obvious reaction. We have a long way to go if we really want to restore our runs and we must do it yesterday.

Kill all the hatchery fish you want. Leave the natives alone, imo.

You don't worry none about those hatchery fish Van....I'll release more of those in one season than you'll see in a lifetime!

 

[Mad dog]

And what were the populations like at the turn of the century? Im guess much greater. Nothing against modest man but this forum has taught me that everyones posts are to be taken with a grain of salt. When i posted direct information from an experienced high level biologist it was dismissed out of hand

You still mad about the trout you caught on the Clack??? :think:

 

[Mad dog]

Some interesting numbers there Mad dog. It definitely seems to be pointing out that the habitat has been improving the last 10 years since '01-'10 has the highest 10 year average (although supplemented by hatchery fish).

Bingo!!!

Clinton ended all logging on federal lands and the North river headwaters are improving in quality. Still....there are tons of fish that spawn in tribs of the main, the south river, little river and cow creek that are all logged BLM, state or private timber. Half of the Umpqua fish alone are estimated to spawn in tribs of the main!

 

[Van]

Mad puppy never misses a chance to be a douche. Here Raincatcher comes along to thank folks for behaving and you go and crap on the thread. Typical

 

[Mad dog]

Mad puppy never misses a chance to be a douche. Here Raincatcher comes along to thank folks for behaving and you go and crap on the thread. Typical

I knew you would bite Van.....You might as well stick to fishing carp and other suckers....Trash fish!!!

You wear one of those Muslim women scarfs over your head as well when you fish for crap fish.....Man up!!! There's no crying in fishing....real men don't hug when they land a 17" rainbow!

 

[hcole]

Man up!!!

Solid advice right there, They also don't argue like teenage girls, but hey...

 

[waco]

I knew you would bite Van.....You might as well stick to fishing carp and other suckers....Trash fish!!!

You wear one of those Muslim women scarfs over your head as well when you fish for crap fish.....Man up!!! There's no crying in fishing....real men don't hug when they land a 17" rainbow!

It has to be over 17" if you want to hug! Right? Mad dog

 

[DYJ]

the regulation say 24 inches and over for a man hug.

 

[Raincatcher]

Enough with the hijacking...back on topic, please. :naughty:

 

[Mad dog]

Enough with the hijacking...back on topic, please. :naughty:

Sorry, I just like to pick on Van!

Seriously, what is the topic? I don't understand what we are saving the Umpqua winter steelhead from! Might as well take a few to satisfy to bloodthrist of the poachers, and reduce the incidental kill of fish that aren't going to survive anyway! Trust me....when guide boats are having 20 fish days there will be a certain % of fish that just aren't going to make it! It happens!!! It doesn't make sense not to allow for incidental harvest!

 

[Mad dog]

It has to be over 17" if you want to hug! Right? Mad dog

Just between you and me Waco, there have been days on the river where I have felt like I needed a hug when I couldn't hook a damn thing! :lol:

 

[Van]

You have some insecurity issues, dontcha? It takes far more skill to catch carp on the fly than it does to chuck bait at steelhead. As if that makes you a great fisherman. lol Stick to your baitcasters and eggs.

I believe blatant trolling is a against the rules as well. You keep harping about that jack steelhead i caught like i care. You brought it up but I know the science was on my side as opposed to you who thinks he knows more than he does. You are uneducated and uninformed about the fishery, like many other things i am sure.

I hope that wasn't directed at me hcole, as i didn't start the thread nor did i troll anyone. Unlike the troll i am replying to who has nothing positive to add just attacks at other posters and a need to drag threads into the gutter.

 

[fishinshawn]

Sure they do, just like many of us think the ODFW biologist doing this is wrong.

I know it is a hugely emotional issue. Frankly, i dont see that as a problem. When we look at what has become of our once glorious steelhead runs, the desire to protect those that remain from any and all possible harvesting is an obvious reaction. We have a long way to go if we really want to restore our runs and we must do it yesterday.

Kill all the hatchery fish you want. Leave the natives alone, imo.

Out of curiosity, how do you know the steelhead runs were that much better? You know even 20 years ago they didn't really fun clip many fish, so many of those wild fish were likely to be hatchery....

 

[steelhead_stalkers]

So say I'm Mr. roseburg and I love to fish the Umpqua and am a steelhead slaying machine. Last year I fished all winter and had many 20+ fish days. Now this next year I may be able to keep 5 native steelhead. So what happens when Mr. roseburg keeps his five native fish two weeks after the season has started? Is he going to quit fishing the Umpqua and do stuff around the house until winter is over? Nope, he is going to keep fishing and catch and release steelhead for the rest of the winter and the occasional bleeder. All that the harvest allowed was for him and all of the other fisherman in the area to kill five more fish than they would have last year and go back to catching more fish. I say this for those who think that the proposed harvest of five wild steelhead will minimize the overall killing of steelhead from catch related death. Will it hurt the run? Who knows! Will it help it? 100% NO!

Also, there are no rivers in Oregon that are anywhere near their capacity. When ODFW says the stocking numbers of steelhead and salmon are what they are so the rivers are not overpopulated is a load of crap.

There are a lot of rivers where hatchery steelhead ended up not hurting the native populations and that can be seen by many of the Washington rivers that no longer have hatchery steelhead in them. Even 10 to 15 years later the native steelhead stock has not improved. I just don't see why the need to kill them I guess. The run may be healthy but what about in 10 years?

 

[fishinshawn]

So say I'm Mr. roseburg and I love to fish the Umpqua and am a steelhead slaying machine. Last year I fished all winter and had many 20+ fish days. Now this next year I may be able to keep 5 native steelhead. So what happens when Mr. roseburg keeps his five native fish two weeks after the season has started? Is he going to quit fishing the Umpqua and do stuff around the house until winter is over? Nope, he is going to keep fishing and catch and release steelhead for the rest of the winter and the occasional bleeder. All that the harvest allowed was for him and all of the other fisherman in the area to kill five more fish than they would have last year and go back to catching more fish. I say this for those who think that the proposed harvest of five wild steelhead will minimize the overall killing of steelhead from catch related death. Will it hurt the run? Who knows! Will it help it? 100% NO!

Also, there are no rivers in Oregon that are anywhere near their capacity. When ODFW says the stocking numbers of steelhead and salmon are what they are so the rivers are not overpopulated is a load of crap.

There are a lot of rivers where hatchery steelhead ended up not hurting the native populations and that can be seen by many of the Washington rivers that no longer have hatchery steelhead in them. Even 10 to 15 years later the native steelhead stock has not improved. I just don't see why the need to kill them I guess. The run may be healthy but what about in 10 years?

Some people can never be convinced that they are wrong. Biologically speaking a monitored and limited harvest will not hurt the run, the stats have been shown. There are plenty of options available to help minimize the risk to the population. A maximum number per year could be developed, regulations could be put in place such as no angling from a water craft, retention only allowed above the dam, barbless hooks, no bait, etc.

I just don't understand why so many people seem to worship wild steelhead yet they slay wild chinook and coho without problem. It is a salmonoid, just like any other salmonoid. I have read the whole thread and saw several people preaching their morals, not a bad thing, but I have yet to see anything other then a 10 year what if and a moral dilemma.

 

[FishNinja]

Also, there are no rivers in Oregon that are anywhere near their capacity. When ODFW says the stocking numbers of steelhead and salmon are what they are so the rivers are not overpopulated is a load of crap.

And exactly what data are you looking at to come to that conclusion? I'd love to read it.

 

[steelhead_stalkers]

I see no reason to harvest wild spring Chinook, fall Chinook or Coho especially if the numbers are as low as they have been.

You can look at Alaska if you want to see what rivers can handle as far as fish populations. Its the last area to be killed off from over harvest. Oregon was probably very close to Alaska before Dams, predators, over harvest and a whole bunch of other problems.

 

[Mad dog]

Van,

it was a trout....you even concluded your post by stating that no one could conclusively identify that fish solely by a picture...I guess except for your wife and her Bio braintrust....Oh, Man!!!

And don't call me a bait chucking whatever....you have no idea who I am....only what you see on this forum! Seems to me you are the one with the fragile eggshell ego!

I don't care how much skill you think it takes to hook a carp....it's a carp for god sake's!!! Why would you even want the damn thing on the end of your line! Probably the ugliest fish ever!