jamisonace
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nicholas said:
Actually, I would never bonk a sucker. It's the pikeminnows that I bonk by the wheelbarrow load.
What should I do with these suckers?
Actually, I would never bonk a sucker. It's the pikeminnows that I bonk by the wheelbarrow load.
Irishrover
Moderator
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Thanks for the question and the poll. This is what this forum is all about. Asking questions so that others who read this forum world wide can receive a wee bit of free education regarding our fisheries. I appears that Oregon has four species of native sucker fish. Two of which are on the endangered species list. http://www.oregonwild.org/wildlife/klamath-sucker-fish. The northern pikeminnow is not a sucker fish it is a member of the minnow family and is a destroyer of juvenile salmon.homerhomer said:
EOBOY
Well-known member
Irishrover said:
It was always called a squawfish That is how we knew them and why I was taught to throw them on the bank. The Dams are what made the squawfish a lethal killer. The slow water below the Dams allowed the squawfish to catch the smolts returning to the sea. Tubes were installed to funnel the smolts past the Dans and dumped into the fast current. But they are a native fish.
https://www.google.com/#q=squawfish
Irishrover
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That's how I remember them too. Squaw fish but that was changed. They do prefer slower water and in some lakes grow to 30lbs. Now that is big for a pikeminnow. Yes they most definitely native.EOBOY said:
EOBOY
Well-known member
Yeah a PC change, to bad. They are kind of a cool looking fish till you see that mouth.
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nicholas
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jamisonace said:
Once again, why? Salmon survived for millions of years in the same water as pikeminnow. Why do you feel obligated to kill as many as you can now?
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pinstriper
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jamisonace said:
OK, in my newbness, I can't actually tell the difference between pikeminnows and suckers. I thought they were the same fish. Please to elaborate ?
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newspin
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not to bunny trail..but this is the same philosophical debate that rages around all of nature.
let me just say both view points have merit. ie the rancher has a right to protect his lively hood.
but at the same time pics with a guy and ten plus coyotes in one day is by definition overkill in many cases.
Yes i would take a coyote.. the fur and hide would make cool material to go with buck skin or under the sleeping bag in tent.
so if you got a coyote near salem and not going to use it bring it over ill use it.
one last thought poaching is WRONG along with wanton waste seen too many deer rotting without antlers.
my thought poachers caught should leave woods missing their "set".
let me just say both view points have merit. ie the rancher has a right to protect his lively hood.
but at the same time pics with a guy and ten plus coyotes in one day is by definition overkill in many cases.
Yes i would take a coyote.. the fur and hide would make cool material to go with buck skin or under the sleeping bag in tent.
so if you got a coyote near salem and not going to use it bring it over ill use it.
one last thought poaching is WRONG along with wanton waste seen too many deer rotting without antlers.
my thought poachers caught should leave woods missing their "set".
jamisonace
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I'm familiar with suckers as fish that have downward facing mouths and suck algae off the bottom. We used to spear fish the heck out of black ones on the N. Umpqua when I was a kid. The suckers we catch on the MF Willy seem to be larger and more gray.
The pike minnows have enormous, forward facing salmon fry eating jowles and are gray/greenish.
The pike minnows have enormous, forward facing salmon fry eating jowles and are gray/greenish.
pinstriper said:
jamisonace
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It's fun, it brings me happiness and joy and it helps a good cause. I actually caught a tagged one but it was only worth $50.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=IusDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5000,2050018&hl=en
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=IusDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5000,2050018&hl=en
nicholas said:
Irishrover
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Here are some images of suckers
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...5CE46155FE360510C659D3B716B768DB8&FORM=IQFRBA
Here are images of Northern Pikeminnow.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...0A2A7A9D6226738223B4A545DEB7D1CB5&FORM=IQFRBA
ODF&W had determined that the balance is out of whack with regard to the number of pikeminnow vs salmon smolt. That is why the bounty system has been set on the pikeminnow. Just Google northern pikeminnow predation.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...5CE46155FE360510C659D3B716B768DB8&FORM=IQFRBA
Here are images of Northern Pikeminnow.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...0A2A7A9D6226738223B4A545DEB7D1CB5&FORM=IQFRBA
ODF&W had determined that the balance is out of whack with regard to the number of pikeminnow vs salmon smolt. That is why the bounty system has been set on the pikeminnow. Just Google northern pikeminnow predation.
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homerhomer
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Thanks everyone, I'm going to continue to throw them back and hope the next bump if a steelhead.
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HereFishy
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I used to "bonk n' bank" these fish. Someone I used to fish with, who I now can only describe as "inexperienced", convinced me that they're an invasive species... Good for nothing but racoon food. He told me that all they do is feed on salmon and trout smolts. Decimating the numbers of the "desirable fish". Isn't that what all fish do? Bigger fish eat smaller fish. That's just how it works. It wasn't too long ago that someone set me straight (I think it was Barb?). Come to find out, the pikeminnows, squawfish, whatever you want to call them, are native. And the bass that I'm so dead set on not harming, "don't hold them horizontally by their jaw for a picture (you'll damage their jaw and they can't feed). Don't let them flop around on the carpet of your boat (it hurts their scales), slowly move them back and forth in the water until they regain their strength, etc.", are in fact an invasive species. I now hold squawfish in the same regard as stocker trout. If you're not going to eat it (which I don't suggest.. They're BONY).. Just send them on their way. They're nothing that you're going to snap pictures of for bragging rights or have stuffed for your mantle. But they have a right to life. Just like any steelhead, coho, King, sturgeon, etc.. All I ask is this... If you're going to appoint yourself judge, jury, and executioner for a native species, will you let me know where you're going to slaughter springers so I can get there a day or two ahead of you?
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pinstriper
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Irishrover said:
So suckers have a square tail and sucker mouth, pikeminnow a forked tail and a sort of bassy mouth. I can deal with that.
Many thanks !
Irishrover
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It's the professional fish biologist at NOAA (NMSF), WDFG, ODF&W, and others that recommended the program. They are the judge and jury. They are not trying to eliminate the pikeminnow, just reduce their numbers in the main stream of the Columbia. There is an over abundance of pikeminnow, they are not an endangered species. However they are doing a lot of damage to endangered species of salmon as they migrate down to the ocean. No one is forcing anyone to kill an abundant native species folks are just asking those who want to, to help protect an endangered stock of salmon. It's an individual choice and I'll go with the fish guys at NOAA.
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rogerdodger
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Irishrover said:
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Modest_Man
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Irishrover said:
It's a BPA (Bonneville Power Administration) funded program. It's administered by the Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission. ODFW and WDFW are subcontractors. NOAA is not involved. The entire program is based on iffy science from thirty years ago. A lot easier for BPA to pay for a dead native fish than to spend the money on habitat enhancement.
Here's some data from the 2014 report.
The program doesn't do squat but kill native fish.
Next time anyone catches and kills a pikeminnow cut open the gut and tell me how many Salmonids are inside.
The fish most commonly confused for the pikeminnow is the peamouth, of which over 11,000 were killed and turned in at the check station this last year.
jamisonace
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It's funny how science is "iffy" if we don't agree with it but it becomes "settled science" when we do agree with it.
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Modest_Man
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jamisonace said:
Read the papers. Focus on the methods used. Make your own call. Don't put words in my mouth.
The good thing about science is that nothing is ever set in stone. In the 80's the researchers had absolutely zero experience with DNA analysis.
Pretty telling though when the actual 2014 pikeminnow sport reward program report states that Salmonids were infrequently eaten and that they couldn't tell if the program was doing any good.
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jamisonace
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Modest_Man said:
Exactly! Too many people put the conclusion before the data then say the data is " settled science" when it supports the pre determined conclusion.
