WA fishing closures bring crowds to Oregon?

[Dizzy Fisherman]

If you read some articles surrounding this topic you’ll soon realize that it has more to do with the how the user groups pushing for these new rules will benefit. These user groups really don’t care if the “wild” steelhead populations rebound to what they were years and years ago. They are content with a 1% increase and will call that a win. Mainly they (fly fishermen) want more opportunity for themselves while only having unclipped fish in the rivers. These wild fish advocacy groups despise the gear fisherman and hatchery raised fish. In their mind fly fishing is superior and so are wild fish. This is funny because many of these so called fly fisherman I see today are fishing indicators with beads. Wild fish will never rebound to historic levels. If left completely alone their populations may increase by a very small percentage. Nothing that anybody other than these groups would be excited about because they only want to catch a steelhead with an adipose fin and more importantly they want to do this in COMPLETE solitude. What I mean by that is they are hoping that rivers change to fly fishing only and or limit gear fishing opportunity so much that the gear fishing folks will get discouraged and give up.

The only real answer is to implement broodstock programs everywhere if we are to truly have an abundance of fish for EVERYONE to catch. I would also urge everyone to be careful where you spend your money as many of these large companies support these wild fish advocacy groups. Companies like Simms and Patagonia. Also many of the stores will support these advocacy groups as well so it’s not only what you buy but it’s who you buy it from. Do your research as you could be paying for the next Patagonia anti-hatchery short film.

 

[brandon4455]

If you read some articles surrounding this topic you’ll soon realize that it has more to do with the how the user groups pushing for these new rules will benefit. These user groups really don’t care if the “wild” steelhead populations rebound to what they were years and years ago. They are content with a 1% increase and will call that a win. Mainly they (fly fishermen) want more opportunity for themselves while only having unclipped fish in the rivers. These wild fish advocacy groups despise the gear fisherman and hatchery raised fish. In their mind fly fishing is superior and so are wild fish. This is funny because many of these so called fly fisherman I see today are fishing indicators with beads. Wild fish will never rebound to historic levels. If left completely alone their populations may increase by a very small percentage. Nothing that anybody other than these groups would be excited about because they only want to catch a steelhead with an adipose fin and more importantly they want to do this in complete solitude. The only real answer is to implement broodstock programs everywhere if we are to truly have an abundance of fish for everyone to catch. I would also urge everyone to be careful where you spend your money as many of these large companies support these wild fish advocacy groups. Companies like Simms and Patagonia. Also many of the stores will support these advocacy groups as well so it’s not only what you buy but it’s who you buy it from.

Sadly this this true. I fly fish 90% of the time and I love wild fish. but I do not buy into native fish society bogus and what is even more sad is people who are new to the hobby (like I once was, you could probably find plenty of my ignorant wild fish rants here ) fall right into it. what people need to see is fisheries at work in person and see pure unbiased data and science before taking a stance. But with the way media works these days and large companies like you mentioned taking that stance and putting a ton of biased info and videos/articles out, a lot of which aren’t true, how do you get anything done in terms of management/policy changes and things that are good for the fish. Too much division in beliefs about what needs to be done for everyone to be happy.

as a fly fisherman who targets popular cold water species across Oregon I frequently have to overcome challenges to catch fish and I often have to fish next to those fishing regular gear.. it has never bothered me at all or made me feel like I need to exclude them from the river in any way, nor do I think that I deserve special regulations to help me catch more fish.I think the only part that bothers me is I get a ton of flack and dirty looks on coastal fisheries because most fly anglers are well known for snagging/flossing/harassing spawning fish, more so than any other group by a long shot. and ontop of that, don’t know jack squat about the fish they claim to love, and want hatchery fish gone and all other anglers off the river.It’s probably the most contradicting part of this whole issue.

We all deserve equal opportunity to catch fish and there should be more common ground on what needs to be done to enhance those opportunities.
Preservation and enhancement can go hand if we all want them to, instead of being extremist on either side. wild fish can be preserved and also enhanced and hatchery fish play a huge role in that imo. Hatchery fish are not nearly as bad as people think they are, and wild fish are still very special. Both sides are wrong.

 

[Dizzy Fisherman]

Just know that I’m not classifying all fly fisherman as evil haters of gear fisherman. I think we both care about the fish. I feel though that these wild fish advocacy groups that are made up of fly fishermen want more opportunity for themselves while gear fisherman want more opportunity for everyone. If those puget sound rivers were loaded with broodstock fish they would be open and people would be fishing them. Personally I doubt those folks living near puget sound rivers enjoy getting up at 3 AM, driving 2.5 hours in crappy weather, wasting a tank of gas, only to crowd in with everyone else on the Peninsula.

 

[brandon4455]

Just know that I’m not classifying all fly fisherman as evil haters of gear fisherman. I think we both care about the fish. I feel though that these wild fish advocacy groups that are made up of fly fishermen and women want more opportunity for themselves while gear fisherman want more opportunity for everyone. If those puget sound rivers were loaded with broodstock fish they would be open and people would be fishing them. Personally I doubt those folks living near puget sound rivers enjoy getting up at 3 AM, driving 2.5 hours in crappy weather, wasting a tank of gas, only to crowd in with everyone

Oh I know, I wasn’t taking a shot or anything. I agree that most fly anglers can be put in this group unfortunately. But I believe there is plenty of hate on both sides, like I said I get lots of dirty looks toting a fly rod around on the coast, and I understand why.

but if any of this stuff is ever going to work the way it needs to, we need to not think about hatchery vs wild or gear vs fly. We are all anglers and we all want fish. I find it ironic the fly anglers in these extremist wild fish groups are finding and supporting things that essentially shut down fisheries and even take their opportunities away, and none of it has revived a single fishery. Habitat restoration or allowing fish to reach the better habitat does.

my home creek is a willamette trib that drains out of the east slope coast range. There is a 60+ year old earthen dam without a fish ladder on the creek. The creek use to be stocked with hatchery coho salmon. Mostly with hatch boxes. Once this program was discontinued, the fish spawned in the creek and you had wild (not native) but wild spawned cohos. These fish were clinging to life for years with minimal gravel or rearing habitat and warm summer temps all while avoiding predators on the way back to the ocean in the willamette.

in 2009 a program started that trapped the cohos below the dam and transported them to better habitat upstream. The run now is usually 10x or more what it was before the fish had access to that habitat. And remember.. we are talking about fish that are of hatchery origin. This is one of the things that made me believe that hatchery fish are not the problem, or at least not a big one. Any kind of project I’ve worked on like this one, has shown one common thing and that is habitat is what matters most.


Stock broodstock fish where needed and where the runs support it.
Let people fish bait where there are hatchery fish just like with trout fishing
let People fish from boats it’s not hurting anything.

case closed.

 

[Dizzy Fisherman]

There were many coastal land owners back in the day that were operating hatch boxes on their property. The remnants of those boxes can still be found on many of the properties still. I can only imagine what those rivers would be like if they were still in operation today. When it comes to the extremists potentially limiting their own opportunity it can be explained because many of the members/financial donors don’t even live in the Northwest or even fish. I believe Simms is located in Montana for example. Do you want someone living in Montana to decide if, when, and how you’re going to fish in Oregon?

 

[brandon4455]

There were many coastal land owners back in the day that were operating hatch boxes on their property. The remnants of those boxes can still be found on many of the properties still. I can only imagine what those rivers would be like if they were still in operation today. When it comes to the extremists potentially limiting their own opportunity it can be explained because many of the members/financial donors don’t even live in the Northwest. I believe Simms is located in Montana for example. Do you want someone living in Montana to decide if, when, and how you’re going to fish in Oregon?

Unfortunately that’s how it is with a lot of things in life. Big money, big name, big influence. How do you think the NFS retains these high profile lawyers that keep suing ODFW/WDFW and forcing their hand? Funding from big companies, and funding from blindly following fly anglers and even hippies that don’t even fish or understand, that donate or pay for memberships. which is probably what happened with this situation.

 

[Dizzy Fisherman]

I have nothing against fly fisherman. I fly fish for trout and I’ve tried swinging for steelhead a handful times. I even sold fly fishing tackle when I worked for a popular now closed Northwest sporting goods retailer. The point I’m trying to make is collectively there are more of us than there are members of WFC and NFS. If we all band together we could be great. Don’t support the brands that help these groups. Join a reputable NW advocacy group and get involved.

 

[brandon4455]

I have nothing against fly fisherman. I fly fish for trout and I’ve tried swinging for steelhead a handful times. I even sold fly fishing tackle when I worked for a popular now closed Northwest sporting goods retailer. The point I’m trying to make is collectively there are more of us than there are members of WFC and NFS. If we all band together we could be great. Don’t support the brands that help these groups. Join a reputable NW advocacy group and get involved.

You must be misunderstanding me I’m not coming at you or anything, I never said you did. I’m just saying.. have you ever seen anyone support NFS that wasn’t a fly fisherman?? I sure haven’t. It is mainly because all of this stuff is promoted by gear companies that cater to fly anglers. People don’t really care about wild fish. They think it’s cool to “care” about wild fish

 

[Dizzy Fisherman]

I know you are not coming at me. Many people will read this and I’m putting it out there before assumptions are made. To answer your question I haven’t seen anyone support NFS that wasn’t a fly angler. I do care about the wild fish and I don’t drink the koolaid. Most wild fish advocates say they want to fix habitat but that is an empty wish that is not a realistically attainable goal. Just for fun let’s just say they improve spawning habitat. In the meantime predation continues to get worse, ocean conditions continue to get worse, kill nets are still being used, dams still exist, logging continues, etc.

There are a few changes I would like to see on certain Oregon rivers that receive no hatchery plants. I think that wild fish should not be removed from the water for a picture. This should just be a standing rule for all rivers unless you are collecting wild fish for broodstock. I don’t think bait (eggs, shrimp, etc) should be allowed. I also think it should be single barbless hooks. I think scent, worms, and soft beads should still be allowed. This is my own opinion but many I know share this same opinion.