Low holers: my experience on the Clackamas

[alm21]

I understand the frustration when etiquette is disregarded on the water regardless of preferred techniques. I too have let people know when boundaries are being crossed. But I don’t see how a thread like this helps anyone. It just seems to drive the wedge further between “gear” and “fly” anglers which seems pointless to me. Why even have the distinction in this case? Well, I suppose it has merit in the sense as to how the gear and spey anglers work the water. But I don’t see complaining on the forums about kayakers and rafters paddling over the hole you’re fishing? (Etiquette would dictate, if they even knew, would be to row near shore with the anglers when passing the anglers). Remember, many of us are fishing very public areas with mixed use and no one is more entitled to the water any more than the next person. This is when education replaces ignorance and in those cases, if the issues exist, they are probably just jerks regardless of whether or not they fish gear, fly/spey, kayak, play fetch with their dog, etc. What I see in this thread is back patting for the guy who one-up’ed the other guy that day yet no real clarification, or better yet, education on the subject. I’ve made just about all the mistakes in the book along my learning curve. That includes one time when I was fishing with my son and I started to fish between two spey guys working a run. I was ignorant as I didn’t understand at the time how spey anglers work the water. Had they been gear fishermen, we would’ve been plenty far from each other. They weren’t happy with me at all but instead of coming up pissed off claiming I low-holed them (which would immediately put me on the defensive), one of the guys politely asked if he could work through. This is when I realized I made a mistake and I was really embarrassed as I didn’t intend to be a jerk. Embarrassed enough to pack our gear and leave in the opposite direction of those guys. I know better now but at the same rate, if I’m at a long drift like ones you’ll find at Oxbow. I’ll fish the tailout while the spey guys are at the top working down and I’d be more than happy to move to the top to allow them to work the tailout once they get down there. And if they get a fish out of it after me, more power to them. But at a public park like that, nobody should think for a moment that they’ll have a 100-200yard drift to themselves. There needs to be some understanding and cooperation for mixed use needs. It’s like the usage demands we see in our parks. Football, soccer, rugby, lacrosse, etc. all vying for the same piece a grass. Here is my suggestion, start a sticky thread (so it stays at the top) in the infrequently viewed/posted Tutorials section educating people how spey anglers work the water and what the appropriate etiquette expectations are. Then when the issue arises or people come on saying “I’m new…”, point them there. The infighting amongst anglers and pissing contests on forums is dulling the luster of not only OFF but the sport as a whole.

 

[Modest_Man]

Well put.

 

[DirectDrive]

I understand the frustration when etiquette is disregarded on the water regardless of preferred techniques. I too have let people know when boundaries are being crossed. But I don’t see how a thread like this helps anyone. It just seems to drive the wedge further between “gear” and “fly” anglers which seems pointless to me. Why even have the distinction in this case? Well, I suppose it has merit in the sense as to how the gear and spey anglers work the water.

I don't think you've read this entire thread.
There's no "wedge". Many experienced gear and fly anglers fish the same water and in the same way.
We swing....feathers or brass....no matter.
While we swing we step through the run, usually starting at the top and finishing at the tail out.

I was ignorant as I didn’t understand at the time how spey anglers work the water. Had they been gear fishermen, we would’ve been plenty far from each other.

Not necessarily.
If they were swinging gear fisherman, you would have been in the same pickle.

I know better now but at the same rate, if I’m at a long drift like ones you’ll find at Oxbow. I’ll fish the tailout while the spey guys are at the top working down and I’d be more than happy to move to the top to allow them to work the tailout once they get down there.

Uh oh....diving into the tailout ?!
That's the honey, the payoff, oftentimes for someone working down.
If it's a small run and someone's coming down, you might hear about it !

Always step in BEHIND fisherman moving through a run.
If there's no room WAIT.
I have waited many, many times for my turn to go through.
Not a big deal.

And if they get a fish out of it after me, more power to them. But at a public park like that, nobody should think for a moment that they’ll have a 100-200yard drift to themselves. There needs to be some understanding and cooperation for mixed use needs.

It's about a mixture of common sense, knowledge of the area and an understanding of techniques.

Is it a hole that is traditionally driftfished ?
If yes, then you had better not toss a plunking outfit in there.
You had also better not expect to run a side-planer.
Don't try to swing it....probably too deep anyway.

Is it a run with step casters in it ?

Maybe it's a traditional float/jig spot ?

Observe what's going on and fit in.

Here is my suggestion, start a sticky thread (so it stays at the top) in the infrequently viewed/posted Tutorials section educating people how spey anglers work the water and what the appropriate etiquette expectations are.

You're back to "Spey Anglers and How to Cope With Them" !

It's about understanding how a spot is traditionally fished and understanding the various techniques and how they fit in or don't fit into the conditions at hand.
It's not gear vs. fly.

 

[Raincatcher]

Hmmm, as long as I'm not snagging/foul hooking or stepping in front of or into someones spot, I, and I alone decide how I'm going to fish it. I have no issues with fly or spey fisher folks, either. I have issues with rude folks who know better, especially after I've tried in vain to educate them. :hi:

 

[halibuthitman]

This is the best pieces of information posted on the forum in years.. The word tradition, perfect.

 

[Hooked Up]

[Always step in BEHIND fisherman moving through a run.
If there's no room WAIT.
I have waited many, many times for my turn to go through.
Not a big deal.]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[alm21]

DirectDrive, I think you’re missing my point. I apologize for not being clearer. But I’m not proposing “Spey Anglers and How to Cope With Them”. I’m suggesting that this forum might be better served by taking some time to explain how spey anglers work a hole for those who don’t understand and would like to avoid accidentally low-hole’ing them. And I’m only specifying spey casting because the OP was doing just that. I’d rather not go down a rat hole with you especially since I think I’d mainly agree with your perspective on river etiquette.

 

[waco]

I don't think you've read this entire thread.
There's no "wedge". Many experienced gear and fly anglers fish the same water and in the same way.
We swing....feathers or brass....no matter.
While we swing we step through the run, usually starting at the top and finishing at the tail out.


Not necessarily.
If they were swinging gear fisherman, you would have been in the same pickle.


Uh oh....diving into the tailout ?!
That's the honey, the payoff, oftentimes for someone working down.
If it's a small run and someone's coming down, you might hear about it !

Always step in BEHIND fisherman moving through a run.
If there's no room WAIT.
I have waited many, many times for my turn to go through.
Not a big deal.


It's about a mixture of common sense, knowledge of the area and an understanding of techniques.

Is it a hole that is traditionally driftfished ?
If yes, then you had better not toss a plunking outfit in there.
You had also better not expect to run a side-planer.
Don't try to swing it....probably too deep anyway.

Is it a run with step casters in it ?

Maybe it's a traditional float/jig spot ?

Observe what's going on and fit in.


You're back to "Spey Anglers and How to Cope With Them" !

It's about understanding how a spot is traditionally fished and understanding the various techniques and how they fit in or don't fit into the conditions at hand.
It's not gear vs. fly.

Well put!

 

[OnTheFly]

I don't think you've read this entire thread.
There's no "wedge". Many experienced gear and fly anglers fish the same water and in the same way.
We swing....feathers or brass....no matter.
While we swing we step through the run, usually starting at the top and finishing at the tail out.


Not necessarily.
If they were swinging gear fisherman, you would have been in the same pickle.


Uh oh....diving into the tailout ?!
That's the honey, the payoff, oftentimes for someone working down.
If it's a small run and someone's coming down, you might hear about it !

Always step in BEHIND fisherman moving through a run.
If there's no room WAIT.
I have waited many, many times for my turn to go through.
Not a big deal.


It's about a mixture of common sense, knowledge of the area and an understanding of techniques.

Is it a hole that is traditionally driftfished ?
If yes, then you had better not toss a plunking outfit in there.
You had also better not expect to run a side-planer.
Don't try to swing it....probably too deep anyway.

Is it a run with step casters in it ?

Maybe it's a traditional float/jig spot ?

Observe what's going on and fit in.


You're back to "Spey Anglers and How to Cope With Them" !

It's about understanding how a spot is traditionally fished and understanding the various techniques and how they fit in or don't fit into the conditions at hand.
It's not gear vs. fly.

Nailed it!!!:thumb::thumb::thumb:

BTW, Any fisherman, I don't care if they're throwing hand lines or hoglines, if they step in front of me without any regard of how I am fishing a particular spot, I think are downright uneducated. I apologize if anyone thought I was implying bait fishermen are blatant ignorant low-holers. But if those guys had shown up with spey rods I would have said they had spey rods and I would have reacted the same way. I simply called it as I saw it. The bottom line here is that there are many fishermen out there that simply don't have a clue about river etiquette regardless of their preferred fishing technique.

 

[rogerdodger]

this is a great thread and one of the reasons I like OFF so much....opcorn:

 

[troutmasta]

'blurred lines'

 

[Raincatcher]

You know, I honestly wouldn't know a spey rod if you walked up and whacked me in the head with it. I guess I need to educate myself on the different types of rods and what their requirements and techniques are. I am still working on the difference between trout rods and steelhead rods, bass rods and chinook rods....geez, I better hope I can find some kind folks willing to take the time to help an old gal out. Maybe some pics would help? :sad:

 

[OnTheFly]

You know, I honestly wouldn't know a spey rod if you walked up and whacked me in the head with it. :

Yes you would Barb because, unlike the average fly rod, they would be whacking you holding onto the spey rod with two hands.:lol:

 

[DrTheopolis]

So, my best fishing buddy did his 4rd Barton to Carver drift of the winter season today (and it KILLED my laid-up butt to have to turn a trip down tomorrow). Said he counted 25 trailers at Carver. Of course, this is internet hearsay (the best kind, from an anonymous user name), but said he got lowholed by the same guy 3 FREAKING TIMES.

The last one was one of the last good runs, and when my bro drifted in, there was a boat fishing. Since he and passengers were 0-fer (first skunk in his 4 trips), he really wanted to fish it. So, he dropped anchor up above and waited for it to open. Along comes Nichols Guide Service in his sled, who has already lowholed him twice, and gives him some lip for anchoring. "I just about took out a driftboat anchored there the other day!!!"


Gee, bud -- hard to take out a driftboat if you were operating safely. He then lowholed both my buddy and the guys already fishing the hole.

The epitome of "doesn't get it." One would expect so much better from a guide.

BTW -- I hope naming a business doesn't violate any rules here -- I don't recall seeing anything to that effect. If so, I'll fix it with apologies.

And if I don't get a little more mobile and get out soon, I'm going to lose it.

 

[redhawk50]

Gear or fly does not matter. People who low hole will low hole for whatever reason whether it be ignorance or attitude. Public land is public and just like the roads some people are going to think they can do what they please.

As a Spey caster I have a question for gear people. If you are sitting on a bucket or your rod is in a holder with line in the water what is etiquette for fishing above or below? I usually try to talk to them but sometimes they think I a trying to be a jerk. Thanks.

 

[steelheaddrifter]

Scott Nichols Guide Service low holes drift boats (when they are pulling plugs) in his sled on the Clackamas all the time during winter Steelhead season! And also speeds past them when they are fishing! If you have a boat with a motor – Show some river etiquette when passing a non-motorized boat! Non-motorized boats have the right of way!!!

We can all share the river if we show some RIVER ETIQUETT!!!

 

[Silvers&Steelies]

When first fishing the Clackamas and Sandy rivers I used to get really mad about the lowholing and such. Then it seemed to happen all the time so I got used to fishing around them. Most of the time I just go hike on to find a better spot or a new spot and avoid the hatchery holes. I also don't believe in secret spots on a popular river and find it funny when people get mad you found there "secret spot". People don't care if they're lowholing and are usually greedy just to get a fish and will do whatever it takes. The only thing that really makes me mad is if I catch a fish and I'm filling my tag or re rigging and someone moving into the same spot I was standing or if I see intentional snagging.