Carp: The facts

[Sinkline]

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[john montana]

Carp and bass actually coexist extremely well. They rarely compete for food or habitat. Bass are primarily ambush predators that eat larger prey (such as smolt which is why bass are such a threat to our native fish.). Carp simply don't feed in that manner. They also choose different primary habitat, with bass not spending nearly as much time in Shallow water. Carp spend a lot of time in knee deep water. I find it hard to believe that carp would or could drive bass from preferred habitat. They don't pursue the same primary food source or habitat so why would they
(not the least of which how would they? Carp, while large are far from predatory ).

The dangers that carp bring with them is primarily in habitat degradation. Due to their feeding methods they can and do uproot aquatic plants and vegetation. This will cause silt and sediment issues in an enclosed environment with a lack of predators...see the malheur reservoir problems. Like most species, it is overpopulation that is the biggest threat. Our native northern pike minnow was designed to live and coexist with out salmon out here, and only became a problem when the dams allowed them to overpopulate. This will happen with any species (note the decline in historic steelhead runs on the John day that coincide with the ever increasing smallmouth populations.).

Carp are an invasive, just like bass. Both can and will be destructive if in a situation where the populations grow out of control...heck, both are already destructive to some degree any way you slice it. No dispute from me on that but I do take issue with one destructive and invasive species being considered "ok" while another is labelled trash. Technically, the northern pike minnow should be revered over carp, bass, brown trout, walleye etc. Because of it's native distinction.

Sinkline is right. Carp were brought to the us and sold in high priced restaurants on the east coast. They were brought to Oregon at great expense by train and a flood released them from the trout dale hatchery. Interestingly enough, they wer the most highly sought after food fish UNTIL they became relatively abundant in American waters rather than farmed. It is really true that as a society we want what we can't have or is hard to get, and once we get it, we we want something else!

 

[steelhead1]

I know this is nasty,but I thought some might find this interesting.I caught a bunch of HUGE carp this past spring, in a private irrigation pond outside corvallis.I dissected one to see what its insides looked like,and also to find out what it had been eating.Its stomach was empty, but it was full of roe.All of the tan colored goo in this pic is eggs.Nummy

 

[troutdude]

I find it hard to believe that carp would or could drive bass from preferred habitat. They don't pursue the same primary food source or habitat so why would they (not the least of which how would they? Carp, while large are far from predatory ).

You're welcome to come and visit. I'd be happy to show you, that stretch of the Long Tom River that I referred to. The tragedy is, however, that because of the damn Carp...you will never know just how ripe with bass that river used to be. Now, there are only Carp. At least, it was all I caught the last time that I visited that place. They were also rolling all over the place, near the surface. I caught dozens on bass plugs. And I spent a good 7 or 8 hours trying to root out a single bass, with no luck.

 

[chrisohm]

That is just nasty!! Only one man in this world would even dare to do it...Andrew Zimmerman. He would eat it for sure, roe and all....but then he also looks like the devil (add horns and a beard)

 

[john montana]

You're welcome to come and visit. I'd be happy to show you, that stretch of the Long Tom River that I referred to. The tragedy is, however, that because of the damn Carp...you will never know just how ripe with bass that river used to be. Now, there are only Carp. At least, it was all I caught the last time that I visited that place. They were also rolling all over the place, near the surface. I caught dozens on bass plugs. And I spent a good 7 or 8 hours trying to root out a single bass, with no luck.

Would love to fish it with you sometime. I don't doubt that the carp are there, though catching them on bass plugs is very unusual. I just question if the carp are the reason the bass fishing wasn't good. That is the problem with anecdotal evidence; we rely on our own perceptions and bias to create the anecdote! I am as guilty as anyone when it comes to that.

Is the long Tom deep? With a fly rod you can only really catch carp in shallow water by sight fishing but I would love to explore that area some. Could you see the fish tailing like bonefish or were they just sunning near the surface? I am always on the lookout for some big carp haunts!

 

[bigdog]

I can second the carp chasing bass out or at least sending them in to the hiding. When I do some small mouth fishing I go out to cascade locks area, it's almost always good fishing out there. But when the bass are hitting you can go up on top of the cliffs and look down in to the water and see the carp swimming around and they are close to the top. I have heard a few people saying that they are there to feed but I think they are there to spawn. But anyways when they are there the bass either are gone or just won't bite one of the two. I don't have a scuba suit so I can't say for sure if they run the bass out or if they just cause them to not bite.

And yes steelhead1 that is nasty man.

 

[OnTheFly]

And yes steelhead1 that is nasty man.

Hey bigdog, anything's good on a Ritz! lol

 

[john montana]

I know a guy that calls smallmouth bass the "whitefish of the carp flats." mainly because they invariably get in the way and eat the fly when you are trying to catch carp! I enjoy catching bass as much as the next guy, but when you are sight fishing to a 20 lb carp and 12 inch smallie shoots out of the weeds to eat your san juan worm as it sinks toward the carp your first reaction isn't "awesome...i've got a bass." hah...

From what i've seen and read, they coexist extremely well. There are certainly healthy populations for both species in the Big C. The only way i could see carp having a real impact on bass populations would be destroying habit that grew the food for the various creatures the bass eat. both fish eat crayfish, but bass have a much more "protein filled" diet than carp. Again, i'm not an expert in fish biology...we should ask someone that is. I know carp (and bass) can harm a fishery, but from what i've read and seen, they don't harm each other's fisheries. I was out by cascade locks this summer catching carp 50 ft from guys that were slaying some bass...they were looking at me kind of funny!

 

[Stradic2000]

The only way I'd even consider carp fishing would be if the state started paying me to remove them (like they do with squawfish). I have no interest in fishing for oversized gold fish.

 

[john montana]

Carp are not related to goldfish, nor are they related to Koi. all three are very different species.

here is a nice Koi I caught a few years ago.

 

[OnTheFly]

Regarding post 39. Hey John, no problem sight fishing for That one I bet..lol

 

[john montana]

hah...yeah, he was easy to see, but remarkably hard to catch. i guess being that big and bright orange, you learn to be a tad bit spooky!

 

[Stradic2000]

carp are not related to goldfish, nor are they related to koi. All three are very different species.

Here is a nice koi i caught a few years ago.

lol!!!!!!!!!

 

[brandon4455]

just like chubs and suckers they eat fish eggs thats why whenever you catch them throw em' on the bank to die
or sell them to mexicans..theres a taco stand coming into inependence that buys chubs for their fish tacos LOL

 

[john montana]

just like chubs and suckers they eat fish eggs thats why whenever you catch them throw em' on the bank to die LOL

Nearly every species of fish in the world eats fish eggs, so the big question is how much of a carp's diet consists of fish eggs? Like most fish, not much.

Look, I like to catch em but I understand their is a major bias against carp, I just don't like to see blanket statements that simply aren't true thrown out there as reasons for wasteful killing or ridicule for targeting such a species. Carp can be destructive, but primarily by destroying aquatic plants in soft bottomed waters. That is one reason they have been horrible in the malheur reservoir but haven't created nearly the issues that smallmouth bass have for our native species in the Columbia system. Eating eggs? They are never in waters cold enough to eat trout or salmon eggs, and as for bass, the primary predator for smallmouth eggs are panfish. That is why in most states bass fishing is closed during the spawn because they don't want the adults pulled off the nests.

I get the futility of trying to change a radically ingrained bias but I simply can't ignore stuff that is overstated or wrong. Carp are an overgrown goldfish? Not true. Carp are eating our native fish eggs so kill em all? Downright silly. Carp are ugly? Personal opinion so I would give you that one (though I dig mirror carp). Carp are a danger to our fisheries...in some cases yes, in others no. Plus the same statement can be made of nearly every warm water species. Can you imagine hordes of northern pike loose in the big c? Scary.

The point of this thread was "fishing and tackle methods.". I tried to do my part in that department but the title was "carp, the facts" hence some of my other posts. What is becoming apparent is that I am reaching no one (if that was even a goal) and likely spouting off things that most members here don't even want to read. I am not one to take my ball and go home but I will try to continue to be respectful in my posts, and maybe stick to the odd fishing report with pictures of ugly carp. Hopefully no one finds me too far out of line so far, as with only a handful of posts I very much realize I am a guest here.

Tight lines for now,

 

[bigdog]

Hey bigdog, anything's good on a Ritz! lol

Oh man that is so nasty. So did the eggs get cured up out of that fish :lol:

I am not one to take my ball and go home but I will try to continue to be respectful in my posts, and maybe stick to the odd fishing report with pictures of ugly carp. Hopefully no one finds me too far out of line so far, as with only a handful of posts I very much realize I am a guest here.

Tight lines for now,

I don't see a reason for you to feel this way and you shouldn't. This is a open forum and everyones opinions can and should be posted . This is life not everyone is going to have the same opinion and that is what makes us all who we are. By all means post what you post and think what you want it is a free world and this is a free forum.

Everyone needs to have some thinker skin when it comes to some things and need to be able to take things with a grain of salt. The ones that get offended all the time and start going OFF and calling people names or get worked up to the point where they are want to try to call someone out and get in fights over a difference in opinions now them are the ones that need to just go away. You shouldn't feel like a geust the amount of post that you have does not mean anything I don't care if someone has 5 post or 5000 post we all have the right to voice our opinions and should do so just do so in a civil way with out getting panties in a bunch.

So with that said I HATE CARP, then again I have never caught or tried to catch one so I have no idea how the fight is but if I did get one I think I would have to cut the line to get it OFF my gear for I wouldn't want to touch it. I guess the main reason I have never went after a carp is because I don't go after fish I don't eat.

CJ

 

[ninja2010]

I guess the main reason I have never went after a carp is because I don't go after fish I don't eat.

CJ

and why don't you eat carp? ever tried it?

i used to fish for carp in the ponds by a pig farm... (and i won't even post what we used for bait) they were great fighters and being malaysian, i had no qualms trying anything that swims, walks or squirms, as long as there's ample ginger and garlic in the spice recipe... and i gotta say, they taste better than chicken.

john montana:
i have thoroughly enjoyed your learned contributions thus far... (and noice koi) so please do not feel that your words have fallen on deaf ears. in fact, from this thread, i have surfed over to google all sorts of info on fly fishing for carp.

thanks to jim for starting this thread, now i feel like i have to contribute to oregon's fishery by targeting these brutish spooky buggers with my spey rod.

 

[OnTheFly]

now i feel like i have to contribute to oregon's fishery by targeting these brutish spooky buggers with my spey rod.

:wall:

 

[ninja2010]

:wall:

it's all good...