Bait fisherman beware.

[chris61182]

They weren't / aren't trying to turn it into "fly fishing" only. Rather, flies and artificial lures (spinners, wobblers, etc).

Nor was I suggesting that they were, yet.

I was merely stating that if I were in the area and regardless of stance on the bait ban lure fisherman would be well advised to make their presence in the fishery known, lest they someday find themselves on the losing end of their ability to partake.

 

[troutdude]

Understood...and X2.

 

[jamisonace]

Great thread and great opinions...everyone. FYI, The Caddis Fly and the Oregon Fly Fishing Blog are one in the same and they (for all intents and purposes) run the local chapter of TU. Anyway, I've been a fly fisherman for decades and just now have started using bait for Salmon and Steelhead. I don't mind a no bait rule for trout (in fact I fully endorse it) but I don't like the idea of eliminating hatchery fish to the extent that is endorsed by The Caddis Fly. If it were up to them we'd have no hatchery programs for Trout, Salmon or Steelhead...period. Some people argue that would be a good thing but I have a hard time believing it.

 

[crusty old fisherman]

well the fly fisher groups did that to the upper north umpqua why not the mckenzie. since they are purest and elitest yuppies they should have any river they want lol

by the way the fly fishermen down on the elk and sixes rivers are the worst flossers i ever seen how they can say sinking like with weighted tipit and a lead headed leach jig isn't snagging I have no clue

 

[crusty old fisherman]

they have no regards for bait fishermen I have had them come down and fish right off the nose of my boat in water i am fishing then cuss me out because I floated across the water trying to get around them with out getting pushed way down river.

can't say as I have much use for most fly people

 

[everett464]

What really gets my hackles up about this, is that they attempted to make this "ban" decision; without involving the fishing public.

Not only has this been among the main topics of conversation at local Trout Unlimited meetings for the last 2 years, but there are countless public opinion groups set up to discuss the issue, and there have been multiple Register Guard and Oregonian articles written to increase public opinion on the issue. Further, The Oregon Fly Fishing Blog, is the Caddis Fly's blog; it is not a secret, and they do not make any attempt to hide it: they are the same. Those of you who pay attention to local fishing news would have seen a dozen or so articles written in the last year on this supposedly covert action.

Contrary to public opinion, Fly Fishers are still a HUGE minority. I don't know if they have a larger political presence because they have more money, or because they care more (I lean towards the latter, but in reality it is likely a combination of the two (sociology degree anyone?)), but what I do know, is that in the last three years I have attended dozens of environmental political and legal town-hall type meetings, and I have never seen any sort of presence from a bait angling group, or a lure angling group.

The Caddis Fly is not pushing limiting bait fishing, or stocking the McKenzie river because they want fishing to suck, or they don't like other fishing methods. They are pushing the change to make the river a better place for fishing. Better fishing and less money dumped into stocking. Folks who are dying to get into pellet-heads can go to the Alton Baker ponds, and plunk some rainbow power bait out in the guts.

 

[mlw]

I don't know where all this "underhanded" accusation comes from, there is no basis for it. A lot of folks concerned about the quality of fishing on the Mckenzie are suggesting - and have been very public about it, including editorials in the Register Guard, etc - that dumping a hundred thousand and some planters in the Mckenzie every year (most of which live for about two weeks), is hurting the native Mckenzie Redside, a trout superior in every way to hatchery trout, and hurting the fishing. We could have a lot more and bigger native trout without planting. Montana has made itself a top fishing destination by managing for wild trout - they don't plant moving water, only still (Lakes and Reservoirs). ODFW biologists have studied the issue and the evidence is clear - if we want to preserve native trout then we need to manage particularly our most popular rivers according to the best science of how to support them. I personally think the Mckenzie will fish a lot better without hatchery trout, for trout, steelhead, and salmon.
There are a lot more folks today then there were 50 years ago - if we all fish like they did 50 years ago, there won't be anything to fish for.
Michael

 

[everett464]

Agreed: don't blame the Caddis Fly. They are only one of the most active fish conservationist groups in the country (not to mention that they have one of the best resources for fly tying and fly fishing techniques available on the internet). What it is that makes people think they are trying to do evil is absolutely beyond me. The interaction at the beginning of "Day 2" of this post is indicative of the attitude, and it is frankly puzzling: Filming ‘On the Rise’ on the Mckenzie River .

All I know is there were hordes of people sending death threats to Rachel Carson after she published "Silent Spring," and going further back, arguments made that ending slavery would collapse American Agriculture. Change for the positive almost always involves some sacrifice, but at some point, the right thing to do is just that: the right thing.

Early in this thread there was a comment that was made that Salmon and Steelhead runs were also being threatened by this movement; I haven't heard any of that, but I would be interested in seeing articles with those thoughts in mind. I guess I don't see that as being relevant in the conversation, but if it is an issue I would be interested in hearing the respective arguments on either side.

 

[ketts05]

well said everett and mlw. there are a few other threads on this site arguing about if artifical lure/ fly fishing is better than bait fishing, or if fly fishers care more, or bait fishers litter more, or fly fishers have their heads lodged up their nether parts and how far . Sounds like this comes down to people paying attention to the health of this river and being active regardless their preferred methods of fishing. I'm all for the ban there are loads of places that allow bait fishing and from reading about this project in the oregonian and the caddis fly blog this project was insanely well thoughtout and was not entered into without research and a lot of consideration for everyone.
(I will also say that I read the oregon fly fishing blog quite a bit and I do believe that the guys from the caddis fly shop can come off as rather superior and elitist in regards to fishing the fly)

 

[bigsteel]

thanks everett,,i think everyone is seeing it as the caddisfly is being underhanded,,,well theyre not,,theyve been an open book about there stance on native fish...the thing i dont understand is why people are so hepped on stocked fish,,,,,,it has its places but not in a river PERIOD.I think everett is right most not all but most fly fishers have a passion for trout,and they want self sustaining rivers with self sustaining trout,,,INCREASED ANGLING OPPORTUNITY IS BS,,,,i would rather spend a whole weekend trying to catch a 14 inch redside then 50 stocked hot dog trout.'...

 

[bigsteel]

well the fly fisher groups did that to the upper north umpqua why not the mckenzie. since they are purest and elitest yuppies they should have any river they want lol

by the way the fly fishermen down on the elk and sixes rivers are the worst flossers i ever seen how they can say sinking like with weighted tipit and a lead headed leach jig isn't snagging I have no clue

elitist,,,:lol::lol::lol::lol: you should cruise down to any fly only section part of any river and see how clean and well maintained it is,,,,no styrafoam bait containers,,no miles of monofilament,,,no jig and spinner packages floating around,,,,millions of corkies everywhere,,,,,,its actually perfect,,,,,,,ive had bait guys crowd me so that goes to the fishermen not his method.

 

[Raincatcher]

This sort of thread always reminds me of a guy in the steel industry. He had worked there for 20+ years and never voted in the union elections. That didn't keep him from complaining,though. We stopped talking the very day I mentioned this to him and questioned his right to complain yet not participate. I wonder if he fishes now??
By the way,I recant my earlier post here,in fact,it's been deleted after I read the article and the entire thread. I would love to see Oregon's rivers in pristine condition. Will it ever happen? No. Most people find it way too difficult to change a five or six generation tradition. All I can hope for is two things; education and someone willing/brave enough to teach me how to fish with my brand new 5/6 wt fly set-up.

 

[JeannaJigs]

i would rather spend a whole weekend trying to catch a 14 inch redside then 50 stocked hot dog trout.'...

LOL! Agreed.

 

[rippin fish lips]

wouldn't bother me since i rarely use bait when trout fishing other than when i am trolling. Most ly a worm and flasher tolling guy and a lure bank guy for trout anyways. i also think no stocked small rivers and streams need strickter regs just leave my lake regs alone because thats where i go for dinner and the occasianal river trout. Also i think regs like these are good out of town up in the small sections but here in town they should leave them alone and continue to stock fish.

Agreed thuggin!

 

[bigsteel]

This sort of thread always reminds me of a guy in the steel industry. He had worked there for 20+ years and never voted in the union elections. That didn't keep him from complaining,though. We stopped talking the very day I mentioned this to him and questioned his right to complain yet not participate. I wonder if he fishes now??
By the way,I recant my earlier post here,in fact,it's been deleted after I read the article and the entire thread. I would love to see Oregon's rivers in pristine condition. Will it ever happen? No. Most people find it way too difficult to change a five or six generation tradition. All I can hope for is two things; education and someone willing/brave enough to teach me how to fish with my brand new 5/6 wt fly set-up.

Barb ill show you how to fly fish,, u pick the day and place and ill be there

 

[steelheadstalker31]

Is there any data that shows how many native trout are being kept by bait fisherman? Is the issue the planters, or the bait fisherman, or both? It would seem to me that you could stop putting in the planters and make it a catch and release only for native fish and have the same results as eliminating bait fishing for trout, because people, for the most part, are not going to fish for something they can't keep. It would seem that making it no bait is a move that doesn't make much sense.

 

[JeannaJigs]

Is there any data that shows how many native trout are being kept by bait fisherman? Is the issue the planters, or the bait fisherman, or both? It would seem to me that you could stop putting in the planters and make it a catch and release only for native fish and have the same results as eliminating bait fishing for trout, because people, for the most part, are not going to fish for something they can't keep. It would seem that making it no bait is a move that doesn't make much sense.

I think The issue is the mortality rate in relation to the use of bait. Often they're hooked deep and don't survive being released. Barbless artificials don't do as much damage.

 

[GraphiteZen]

...in the last three years I have attended dozens of environmental political and legal town-hall type meetings, and I have never seen any sort of presence from a bait angling group, or a lure angling group.

^^^

 

[everett464]

Are you agreeing, or trying to point out something I am missing?

 

[GraphiteZen]

Nope, just citing a valid point. I'm too unmotivated to contribute anything substantial so vague quotes will have to suffice for me at the moment.