Citation on Lake Creek

[EveryNow&Then]

A friend was sited today for fishing below triangle lake rockslides today. Another friend has fished there a few times and been checked with no citation. Regs I read stated closure from Deadwood Creek to Fish Creek segment Oct 1st-Nov 30th. I'm not exactly sure where Fish Creek comes in as I've never fished the area? Who was in the wrong my friend or the officer?

 

[rogerdodger]

so if you check the perm. regs, the map on page 27 shows Lake Creek and also Deadwood, Indian, and Fish creeks.

perm. regs page 31 has rules for:
Lake Creek upstream to Deadwood Creek: • Open for Chinook salmon May 24-Dec. 31
and
Lake Creek from Deadwood Creek to Fish Creek: • Closed Oct. 1-Nov. 30.


Lake Cr. upstream to Indian Cr. closed to all angling Sept. 1- Oct. 14. Open for Chinook Oct. 15- Dec. 31.
and
Lake Cr. from Indian Cr. upstream to Fish Cr. closed for Chinook the entire year and closed to all angling Sept. 1-Nov. 30.

it looks to me like the deadline for salmon fishing is normally Deadwood Cr (under the perm. regs), but this years update has lowered that deadline to Indian Creek (and above that creek, all fishing is closed Sept.1 to Nov.30).

the citation sounds correct to me. cheers, roger

 

[jhop111]

:yikes: Wow. . Yeah I also have seen people fishing the north fork on the alsea near the hatchery this fall and above indian creek . Guessing that the free regulation book and the yellow signs near most deadlines are still not enough so I'll do my part and give people a heads up on the river if they appear to be ignorant. . Your friend was lucky to not have a fish on the bank because that gets even more expensive fast. Learn the regulations and do your part to help your friends and fellow anglers abide.

 

[jamisonace]

It's hard to tell. You have to look at the chinook regs to get it right. I fished Indiola before 10/15 because I only read the standard regs which make it sound like its open to deadwood. The chinook regs are totally different regarding lake creek.

I didn't get checked but I would have been ticketed if I had been.

Sorry for your friend.

 

[rogerdodger]

no doubt the regulations are complex and require effort to fully comply with (and admit it, we all accidentally mess up now and then) but fisheries management, especially for anadromous fish, is a complex and evolving science, mid-year updates are a part of this and some mid-year changes move to the perm. regs after review and approval.

as for the mid-year updates, if you check NW Zone page 28 of perm. regs, the updates are alerted to watch for under 'Salmon and Steelhead'.

Note: Changes to salmon regulations for the ocean, are printed in the spring and are available at ODFW offices or from license agents.
Regulation changes for other water bodies may occur throughout the year and are posted on the ODFW website:
Check for new regulations before you fish.

 

[EveryNow&Then]

Thanks for the info Roger, yes the regs are complex for sure. Since it doesn't necessarily state whether the river is open above Fish Creek or not just assume it isn't after the citation. I also know someone else who duck hunts Triangle Lake, he's seen the locals bobber fishing for salmon at the mouth at the lake. It seems there is some confusion in the area, even between different officers? The officer told my friend it would have been $6000 had he had a fish, spendy in a hurry.

 

[brewer]

$6000 seems pretty excessive not saying it isn't true. Just seems like it is out of line I just googled it and a DUI charge in Oregon has a $1000 - 2000 fine.

 

[CoastieFlo]

The regs are NOT complex, most people understand them just fine. If you dont read them or look for the most current updates, then you have only yourself to fault.

 

[EveryNow&Then]

And the snarky ^ responses are exactly why some people have left forums and rarely post anything. Must be nice to have all the time in the world to study the regs. I guess if one officer had a different thought on the area another day then they must be idiots too?

 

[rogerdodger]

Thanks for the info Roger, yes the regs are complex for sure. Since it doesn't necessarily state whether the river is open above Fish Creek or not just assume it isn't after the citation. I also know someone else who duck hunts Triangle Lake, he's seen the locals bobber fishing for salmon at the mouth at the lake. It seems there is some confusion in the area, even between different officers? The officer told my friend it would have been $6000 had he had a fish, spendy in a hurry.

this is where a careful reading of the zone regs. helps- under "Salmon and Steelhead" on the right "Closed in all waters unless noted by species under Special Regulations".

so this sets the standard for the entire NW zone, no salmon or steelhead fishing anywhere. then in the Special Regs., there are specific locations that are open for this fishing.

trout are the opposite, open everywhere unless the special regs. identify a location as closed to all fishing.

but trout are open in streams only May24 to Oct.31.

so it sounds like Lake Creek upstream of Fish Creek is never open to salmon or steelhead fishing and is open only to trout fishing during the annual season for streams. cheers, roger

(last I heard, the fine for illegal retention was $600...)

 

[plumb2fish]

Anyone fishing the spawning beds deserves to lose their gear and right to fish...penalties need to be higher and more enforcement....

 

[jhop111]

Lol snarky...that word makes me smile. Your "friend" didn't bother to check the regs before fishing. And a non snarky parallel is if I wanted to go shoot a deer.. tonight in my neighbors back yard. Yes there is a deer season and I had a tag. But If I was unaware or ignorant of the laws I will only have myself to blame when I get ticketed. I could say "but the locals shoot deer too". Which is true but they are probably shooting deer in the daylight and during the correct season. We're all on this forum to share and learn. Everyone joins with either a lot, a little or zero knowledge. The latter seems applicable to your "friend" so please don't take offense if you get a few snarky responses to your post as they're directed not at you but your "friend". A little reading of the rule book and not local here say goes a long way before making a post questioning a state game officer for issuing an easy ticket. If you or your friend have any questions about fishing legal areas were all here to help on this site via advise , tips, open seats and reports.

 

[EveryNow&Then]

I've never fished Lk. Creek myself so that's why I was inquiring . Yes it was my friend as I haven't fished anywhere in over a month. I may not get out as much as some so that's originally why I was asking. I have places I like to fish so I know the regs in those areas. I will not be asking anymore dumb questions, just the ones I know the answers to "LOL". I don't use "LOL" so that makes me smile !

 

[rogerdodger]

just checked the 2015 perm. regs and the change made in mid-2014 (from Deadwood creek to Indian creek) is in the new perm. regs, making this a good example of a change coming out in the mid-year coastal salmon update and then becoming part of the perm. regs the next year.

so Deadwood creek is out and Indian Creek is the new perm deadline for salmon fishing on Lake creek.
-------------------------------------------
Lake Creek (Siuslaw Basin, Lane Co.):
1. Mouth upstream to Indian Creek
• Open for Chinook salmon Oct. 15-Dec. 31.
• Open for adipose fin-clipped steelhead Jan. 1-March 31 and Dec. 1-31.

2. Indian Creek upstream to the mouth of Fish Creek
• Open for adipose fin-clipped steelhead Jan. 1-March 31 and Dec. 1-31.
• Closed Sept. 1-Nov. 30.

3. Tributaries not listed
• Closed
-----------------------------------------

 

[stanster]

My two cents worth is that the Oregon fishing regs are complex, and needlessly so. In my opinion this has more to do with revenue enhancement than it does with dealing witha complex fishery.

That being said, it us up to the individual angler to understand the damned things and if you can't puzzle them out, then ASK.

There is no excuse for poaching except for hunger.

 

[Native Fisher]

Here is my take/issue with the situation. The ODFW can not change permanent regulations without a lot of hub bub, but they can make emergency regulations fairly easy and with little to no public input. Here in lies the problem, they are using the emergency regulations every single year and changing/moving dead lines so that they can avoid the do process required in permanent changes. For example on the South Coos River Salmon fishing has always been allowed to the 7 mile bridge. It is the only stream in the coos system that allows fishing above tide water for salmon. About 8 years ago they made an emergency regulation to close it at the head of tide. Well this "emergency" regulation has been stuck in place every single year since that time, despite them wanting to eliminate some hatchery plants because they were spawning with wild fish? Really ODFW? You have a problem with hatchery fish spawning with wild fish, then you eliminate the fisherman that could actually cull a lot of them out?

So the other main question is when the heck does ODFW have to use due process and change an "emergency" regulation into a permanent? This, to me, is a major issue because if you go to the store and pick up a regulation book it clearly states salmon retention allowed to the 7 mile bridge. The only place you see otherwise is if you access the internet and dig around under the special salmon steelhead regulations. How is someone from out of town supposed to do that? Or someone without internet? I mention this because it sounds like thats what happened to the person in question here.

 

[stanster]

Your comment makes sense to me, Native Fisher. Plus, by keeping the regs complex, confusing to many and at times, difficult to find, this increases the revenue stream from fines.

 

[rogerdodger]

Your comment makes sense to me, Native Fisher. Plus, by keeping the regs complex, confusing to many and at times, difficult to find, this increases the revenue stream from fines.

need to disagree just a bit here, especially on 'difficult to find'...perm. reg booklets at all license outlets, perm. regs and updates right on the front page of the ODFW fishing website, and by signing up there you get e-mail of any changes or updates during the year...plus special regulations are posted on bulletin board at boat launches in the areas they apply...

 

[rogerdodger]

How is someone from out of town supposed to do that? Or someone without internet? I mention this because it sounds like thats what happened to the person in question here.

nope, the person cited here was fishing above the deadline and nothing about that has changed. the slight change on Lake Creek to the season timing and location is well downstream from the deadline and was made in the scheduled mid-year update to the fall salmon regs.

based on my definition, the word "emergency" would not apply to the mid-year season announcement/updates for Salmon/Steelhead/Halibut that are annual, necessary, and we are alerted to expect them in the printed Perm. Regs. booklet in a location that you cannot avoid reading before salmon/steelhead fishing:

Note: Changes to salmon regulations for the ocean, are printed in the spring and are
available at ODFW offices or from license agents. Regulation changes for other
water bodies may occur throughout the year and are posted on the ODFW website:
Check for new regulations before you fish.

as for the traveler without internet access, page 1 of the booklet helps with this:

REGULATIONS MAY CHANGE
Call the Department of Fish and Wildlife at 503-947-6000 for up-to-date information about fishing and regulations
changes.

cheers, roger

 

[Throbbit _Shane]

Good thing bass and trout regulations don't differ from the booklet I get when I buy my license. Along with the Columbia River Tax/Fee Oregon is doing a great job at getting anglers out there fishing. What a joke that fee is I live a few miles from the Willamette River, but over 100 miles or so from the Columbia yet that fee is in effect. Im not a great or even good river angler, but that fee even though minimal has me not wanting to fish for steelhead/salmon.