Bull trout in the Clack?

[beaverfan]

Ok so I came across this article, curious as to how you guys feel about it?


Feds propose putting bull trout back in Clackamas

Associated Press - December 8, 2009 3:05 PM ET

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Federal biologists want to re-establish a population of bull trout - a threatened species - in the headwaters of the Clackamas River in Oregon.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on Tuesday formally proposed the idea as part of its broad efforts to restore the fish in the Northwest.

Bull trout require clean and cold water to thrive, and have not been seen in the Clackamas River since 1963.

The river flows out of the Mount Hood National Forest near Breitenbush and into the Willamette River south of Portland.

Habitat for bull trout has been harmed by logging, mining and grazing on national forests in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada and Montana. Protections have been a legal and political battleground since 2001.

Feds propose putting bull trout back in Clackamas - KTVZ.com Central Oregons News, Weather and Sports Leader -

 

[Thuggin4Life]

From what i understand and have seen about bulls they better put them in the upper clack(nerr insesticada) and river bulls are small if the clack had a res. the could have the other kinda bulls that get a muchh bigger and use the res to live and the river to spawn similar to a ocean fish. searun rainbows are way bigger than creek lived rainbows and even a lake lived river spawner rainbor gets big just not as big as steel same goes for bull. there are 2 kinda bulls : little river bulss and way bigger trophy bulls from lake/res. that go into rivers/creeks to spawn. wee need all te bulls we can get soyues they should put em there.

 

[beaverfan]

There is a Res. on the Clack, North Fork Res. would be accesible to them. I'm pretty sure they're talking about higher up than Estacada.

 

[Mike123]

I say if they are gonna do this they better allow C&R for them...

Was this Reservoir there before 1963??? See cause that changes things.

 

[elvisboats]

I think the key word is this would be a RE-introduction of bull trout. They used to be native to the area; the question is, would RE-introducing this native fish cause problems with protected species like wild salmon and steelhead?

I talked with ODFW about this a few weeks ago... this is being reviewed now. Some in the ODFW are excited about it, others are concerned about potential impacts as bull trout prey on wild anadramous fish... There is a fairly good wild population of steelhead on the Clack that would be at risk. (this is besides the biggies, habitat loss and irrigation.) If they go through with it, they'd use a Metolius strain of bull trout.

 

[chris61182]

How prevalent are brook trout in the Clack? I wonder if the powers that be have given any thought to dealing with the bull x brook hybrids.

 

[beaverfan]

How prevalent are brook trout in the Clack? I wonder if the powers that be have given any thought to dealing with the bull x brook hybrids.

I don't think they're too worried about that. I don't think having a small population of Bull Trout up there would be cool. They will be re-introduced which means they won't be ESA listed.

 

[chris61182]

That isn't anything they'd really have to worry about, Bull Trout are in the Char family, not the trout family.

So are brook trout, and they hybridize to create sterile offspring.

 

[beaverfan]

I didn't realize that Brook Trout were Char too. I still don't think they're too concerned about it. There are other places where these two species coincide together without many issues.

 

[Thuggin4Life]

Yeah trying to bulls back were there are brookies would slow things down a bit on a population growth because of the steril offspring possibility. If they put them in the res, then there woulb be big bulls going upriver to spawn otherwise just putting them in the river would result in little bull trout. Personally I am a fan of the ones in the res. once you see a big bull up close you really respect the fish.

 

[chris61182]

Yeah trying to bulls back were there are brookies would slow things down a bit on a population growth because of the steril offspring possibility.

That might actually be a good way of getting rid of the brookies.

 

[Thuggin4Life]

That might actually be a good way of getting rid of the brookies.

And a waste of tax dollars since the bulls wouldn't reproduce.

 

[beaverfan]

It's not like some Bull Trout is gonna come along and actively search out Brook Trout to mate with. Nature does a pretty good job on her own of making sure that hybrids are limited. For example I would imagine that the type of water that they breed in is different or the time of year they breed is different. Just like Cuttbows, they happen but aren't really very common, especially when you consider how much habitat they share.

 

[chris61182]

And a waste of tax dollars since the bulls wouldn't reproduce.

Not entirely, once the entire population is hybridized they can die off, at which point a breeding population of bulls can be established. It's about the least expensive way I could imagine to get rid of a non-native infestation.

It's not like some Bull Trout is gonna come along and actively search out Brook Trout to mate with. Nature does a pretty good job on her own of making sure that hybrids are limited. For example I would imagine that the type of water that they breed in is different or the time of year they breed is different. Just like Cuttbows, they happen but aren't really very common, especially when you consider how much habitat they share.

Only problem is they do share habitat and frequently cross breed. This happens because they're char from opposite sides of the continent and never naturally co-mingled prior to human intervention. Brook trout introduction is considered to be one of the major factors in why bull trout became endangered, right along side anglers blaming the bull trout for eating their 'more desirable' species and tossing a native 'trash' fish on the shore to feed the raccoons and osprey.

 

[shadow]

upper clackamas

upper clackamas

Does anyone know whats going on with the Upper Clackamas I have been told its closed to steelhead and salmon fishing both. I remember when it wasn't and you could fish all the way to the Collowash river Are they ever gonna re-open it ?

 

[beaverfan]

Ya it's been closed for quite a while now. They stopped planting fish above Estacada to protect native Steelhead and Salmon

 

[mizzle]

so interesting.